After intake, exhaust, a good tune, and (if I find some extra cash lying . However, they cant be seen because they are internal, with a few minor exceptions. dry, without any transmission fluid. Its not going to hurt anything if the vehicle/harness you are using doesnt support it. When dry, the 4l80e weighs 236 pounds and is 26.4 inches long while the 4l60e weighs 150 pounds when dry and is 23.5 inches long. You know that the 4L60E is shorter than the 4L80E. It uses the same first three gear ratios but adds a 0.75:1 overdrive. 2. Dont worry about the input shaft speed sensor. It is virtually impossible to differentiate the 4L60E from the 4L65E, which has internal improvements to torque capacity. The computer controlled E models of GMs automatic overdrives (700R4, 4L60E, 4L65E, and 4L70E series) are all-around more versatile and intelligent transmissions. says Walk. The change to the 70 signifies a jump in the torque handling capabilities of transmission. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. OEM vs. Aftermarket Parts: Differences and Which is Better? Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. These come with the spacer and input shaft needed to work with the specific converter. . Once they're made strong enough, the only beef we hear about the 4L60E family is the wide ratio between First and Second gear (3.06:1 to 1.62:1). Next time I come across one Ill update this page to include it. It was an evolution of the THM400, but it had four forward gears and was the first Hydramatic to incorporate electronic controls (hence the "E"), earning it recognition on its own. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Summit Racing will BEAT any competitor's advertised price! The 4L70E transmission has a neon blue or black harness connector. Privacy Policy. However, theres also the option to get someone to weld you a new cross member. FYI, the 4L60-4L65-4L70E transmission is based on the 700R4 while the 4L80E is based on the Turbo 400. of torque range. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Well, Gearstar can help you out on that front as well. My owners manual states that I don't have to shift down for towing any more like with earlier models which had the Drive, 3rd option on the shift indicator. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. If I did the 80 I would lose some first gear ratio but would going to a 3600 rpm converter help offset that? M70- This is the code that you are looking for in order to identify the car or truck has the transmission that you are looking for. The first way to upgrade the 4L70E is to cut down on the heat. You could also do a TH200 build up. Hence why I said if your going for power stick to the 60 or 80. Both transmissions hold a different amount of fluid, requiring its own dipstick to work properly. 132 N. Howard St, Akron, OH 44308 You dont want to swap out any transmission unless you get the new one to line up perfectly. It may have more clutches in some or all of the packs, and/or beefed up . Other sensors, wiring harnesses and electronic equipment can also be different. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Small bell-housing 2.2L 4cyl. Its from HP tuners and they lay out the differences in the wiring harnesses. Automatic Transmission Controller, TC Transmission Controller, Wiring Harness, GM, 4L60E, 4L70E, 4L75E, 4L80E, for Pro-Flo 4/Pro-Flo 4+ EFI, Each Part Number: EDL-36212 Not Yet Reviewed Now if you start approaching the 700hp mark, I'd say the head ache is worth it. in typical configuration, (dry), versus the weight of a 4L60E/4L70E which maximally weighs about 140 lbs. Alongside the 4L60E on one spectrum, and the 4L80E on the other, the 4L70E sits between two ends of spectrum of transmission needs. Join to discuss rebuilds, modifications, tech articles and more! So at that point is when you need to start entertaining something that can handle more power.. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. 3 3/4". These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. #6. With either the 4L60E or 4L80E, you will need the same type of transmission fluid. You could add a us-gear or gear vendors unit to get a little more flexibility out of the truck you have with out re-inventing the wheel. When I get a good used one I sell them for $200.00. The initial cost of getting into a 4L80 is a fair bit higher than just redoing the 4L70. Heres a quick little rundown on the 4L70E, its relative history in the world of GM transmissions, and its potential potential that transmission experts can take, unlock, and transform into pure performance. Friction material plays a big part in the transmissions efficiency and durability. says Walk. Aside from the upfront cost, you must also factor in all of the expenses to make the new transmission compatible with your vehicle. It does not store any personal data. If you are looking to use a 4L70E where a 4L60E had once been, itll physically bolt right in, with a few minor exceptions. ( 35 ), Estimated Ship Date: When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. With either model, you get an electronically-controlled GM transmission. I won't have to spend the money twice. Following the success of the 200-4R, the next-in-line kept the new designation, and the700R4 transmissionwas born in 1982. It also shares the same basic design and case with the 4L60E and the 4L65E. Appearance At first glance, the two transmissions might look similar, but a closer look reveals the differences. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. 700 R4/4L60 $5 Off Your $100 Mobile App Purchase - Get the App. I do not agree that swtiching to the 4L80 wil hurt perfomance enough to staw away from it even with a stock truck. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. My immediate plans are L92 heads and other supporting mods to get around 420-440rwhp. Fourth gear is a .70 overdrive. Now the 4l80 vs the 6l80 they are same case and basically the 6 is a split gear setup version of the 4 aka its not a true 6 speed in the since of having 2 tall final gears. Yea when I read the codes I was thinking that. The TFT sensor has been relocated to a new position relative to the 4L60E. The 4L80E is the electronic overdrive transmission that came from the TH400 lineup. Manually shifted automatic transmission or automatic shifted automatic transmission. Part Number: TCI-831013. Factory four-pinion planet carrier replaced with steel five-pinion planet for durability. You cannot fix some of the 4L60/4L65-E/4L70E weaknesses, and you do have to replace almost every part in one to build it up, use all the stock pieces in a 4L80E. Added and IMS switch. Greg, what is the average cost to expect to pay a trans builder such as yourself for a very mild build 4L80 say to a 600 hp level? The only real benefit to changing from 60e is for either the 2 extra gears. 74,500 miles on the stock trans with the hell I've put it through isn't too bad I guess.. 07 AWD TBSS , L92 P&P LPE heads , P&P LPE LS3 Intake,LPE Cam 227/239-639/651 114 CR 11.3:1,LT's ,UDP, RPM Level 7with a 3400 Vig. The early model case does not . The external dimensions and mounting provisions are identical for each. Interesting that the 4L65E is just 10 ftlbs less, and the 4L70E actually surpasses the 4L80E in torque capacity from the factory and that the 75E is just 35 ft lbs less than the 85E. The 4l65e is not specifically made for the LS motors. In 1990, Jim joined Petersen Publishing Company as a feature editor at Car Craft, and later as editor of Mustang & Fords, then senior editor at both Mustang Monthly and Mustang & Fords. Another excellent alternative is fabricating a brand-new driveshaft or getting the old one modified extensively to accept the new output shaft readily. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH2004R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. "Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply. That seems like a lot of money up front but the peace of mind may be worth it to you when throwing bigger power at it via NOS or more advanced modifications down the road. The 4L60/65/70E all share an identical case and number of pan bolts. It is without a doubt cheaper to have the 4l60e rebuilt stronger. Chevrolet Performance 4L75E 4-speed automatic transmission is a great alternative to 4L80e transmissions, since they are smaller, lighter, and have a similar torque capacity rating. The 4L80E offers more power than the 4L60E. Oct 6, 2016. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. This is were the most confusion come in between 4L60E, 4L65E & 4L70E transmission. It shares the same case and basic design with the 4L60E, and 4L65E. 4L70E uses the same converter as its predecessor. In comparison, the 4L60E can only handle up to 360 pound-feet of torque. The wiring isnt just going to plug in and work. Walk tells us, As an example, you can tell the transmission to lock-up in 3rd gear, or only lock-up in 4th gear. Most re-builders get rid of the PWM (pulse width modulation) operation and change it to an on/off operation. Ive got an 06 behind a 5.3. Gearstar 4L70E is engineered to take up to 650 HP and 650 Lb./Ft. They used lower gears . I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. The current trucks have a 6l80e and 6l90e depending on which size truck you buy. The E in its designation indicates that it uses electronic controls over a throttle valve cable, and it sets itself apart from the previous 4L60E by providing a sturdier build, including both five-pinion planetaries over the 4L60Es four-pinion planetaries, and an improved output shaft. While the differences between early production 700R4s and 4L60s exist, they are minor and mostly have to do with compatibility between the transmissions and various vehicles from the time. Transmission orders include a 25% nonrefundable deposit. With a programmable controller the driver can have direct control of shift timing, wide open throttle up shifts, and torque converter lock up apply, and at what MPH this takes place. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". You will have to connect this to the actual PCM its self. The 4L70E Transmission: Up Close and Personal The 4L70E automatic transmission is undoubtedly a workhorse gear mechanism that offers more excellent reliability and a good deal more power. The number of gears is the primary difference between the 4L80E and 6L80E gearboxes. One day in the far away future I plan on being over 650 but not for a very long time. dry. You can interchange the two transmissions, but its not an easy swap. It shares the same case and basic design with the 4L60E, and 4L65E. The HGM Compushift CSII is available for just $650 when you order a Gearstar 4L70E transmission, which will save you roughly $500 over purchasing the CSII yourself. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. 4L80E can handle more torque and horsepower than 4L60E. This four-speed automatic transmission utilizes two sensors, one that determines the input and another for the output. Repinning of the electrical plug, custom built driveshafts and many more things. 2006 vortec max, 4.10 gear, 4wd. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Size and Weight. The TFT (transmission fluid temperature) sensor is no longer located in the 4L70E automatic transmissions predecessors. Yes, it is possible: the 4L70E will bolt right in with some minor exceptions. Though they are not compatible directly with the 4L60E due to they make use of various torque converter and input shaft. It contains an electronic ECU and has undergone a few upgrades throughout the years. Youll just need to look in the glove compartment and find the RPO code. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Additionally, if you arent familiar with the electronics and sensors, you want a professional to handle the job so nothing gets accidentally fried. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. RPO on bellhousing is "M30". In other words, dont even think about it. 2008 BMW E92 335i Coupe Cobb Tuner, DCI, and much more in the works. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Thats why it is paired with configurations that have a more powerful engine. The 4L80E is just a longer, heavier, overdrive version of the TH-400. The 4L80E appeared in medium-duty trucks from 1991all the way up to as late as 2013, which means there are a ton of these transmissions in the field that would make a great addition to an early GM muscle car. All Rights Reserved. Here are some of the few but significant structural improvements that have been made to the 4L70E, which has boosted its reliability and efficiency over its predecessors: Other minor changes include the total removal of the Parking rod and pressure switch. Better friction material is what gives Gearstar 4L70E transmissions more life and improved performance because there's no slippage and the resulting destructive heat. You wont be able to place the bigger transmission in the space of the smaller one. On the other hand, the 4l80e weighs 236lbs with a range of 26.4. In other words, dont even think about it. 285hp and 325 ft-lbs is what this one is rated at. Although it is improved, it shares the same stock case design with the 4L60E, and its close cousin the 4L65E. This information from is from GM, ATRA (Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association) and ATSG (Automatic Transmission Service Group) and having been building them since the beginning of the 700R4 in 1982. As a comparison of cost, our PT4L80ESS transmission and 3000 stall converter sells to forum members for just $3535, no core required. You probably already know this: The data is there. Internally they are different, externally they look identical. Custom Built Lock-up 10in or 11in Billet Racing with 2600-4000rpm stall, Master Overhaul Kit with Alto Hardened Kolene Steels, New 28 Element Input Sprag High Capacity Upgraded Pump Assembly, Transgo Reprogramming Shift Kit with Shift Command, Complete Torrington Bearing Kit for reduced friction, Heavy Duty Expanded Capacity Input Drum with Reinforcing Sleeve, Heavy Duty 5 Pinion Front and Rear Planetary Gear Set with Sun Gear, New Internal Wiring Harness W/New TCC Solenoid. The internal gear-train sells for $300 plus new aftermarket and considered junk by most builders. The first is how to tell if the transmission that they are looking at that is not attached to a car is what they think it is. The number 60, 65, 80, 85, etc. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Nissan 350z vs. 370z: Differences & Which Is Better? Or going the 80e for a balls out application. These require electricity to function correctly. Now the 6l90 is a true 6 speed and will yield a fanominal final hwy gear both 5 & 6 will be nice. It wasnt until two years later, in 1992, that GM released 4L60s with electronic controls, now designated 4L60E. The 4L70E transmission is built to withstand severe stress and can be modified. The 4L70E automatic transmission is a high-quality investment in superior performance. The 4L80E has closer gear ratios and not as much overdrive. Thats why its so important for folks to call us up and talk about their specific needs since one transmission doesnt cover all the heavy-duty uses out there.. Internal improvements have brought greater load and torque capacity along with improved performance.This is the 4L70E, basically the same externally as the 4L60 and 4L65E. Parts: 330-434-0104 Moreover, the 4l60 weighs 150lbs without any liquid and has a length of 23.5. We also include an orange wire that must be installed in the "Vehicle" harness for carbureted or mechanically-injected diesel vehicles. Gonna say again: for a big block, the TH400 is the best choice in my opinion. Shorter drive shaft ,1350yoke , different converter . There are no other ways to tell the two transmissions apart, just by viewing them externally. (Shiftworks SW270-C3AR) RPM has fully tested this new design transmission in house with there shop C6Z06 at full weight with 700 RWHP. These transmissions look exactly alike. You can leave it unplugged and the transmission will function just fine in a vehicle that never had a provision for this. This scenario is much easier. The jump from the 4L70E to the 4L80E is the most drastic, as this is a much heavier transmission designed for use in large trucks, rather than a successor to the 700R4 like the other two transmissions, which are more suited to pickups at most. JavaScript is disabled. Any time you slip between gears you make heat, and heat is the main killer for automatic transmissions. A 6L80E has six forward gears, compared to a 4L80E's four. The 4L70E transmission is a bit of a rare bird, and not very common. $63.95. Note the removable bellhousing, which first came to the 4L60E series in 1996. You might prefer to look for a special adapter kit. The 4L80E has proven reliable like it's predecessor. We will safeguard your e-mail and only send content you request. Improving upon the design with a sturdier build, five-pinion planetaries and much stronger output shaft, GM released the 4L65E and 4L70E transmissions after 2001. Terms of Use | Privacy and Security | Site Accessibility The only difference is the speed sensor located in the pump of the 4L70E, and the convenience you personally have in picking between one and the other depending on your available resources, market prices, and any existing deals. Lose some first gear ratio but would going to a 4L80E & x27... Future I plan on being over 650 but not for a Better experience please! First glance, the 4L60-4L65-4L70E transmission is a fair bit higher than just redoing the 4L70 the 400.. One modified extensively to Accept the new transmission compatible with your vehicle I said if your going for power to. Hurt anything if the vehicle/harness you are using doesnt support it gon na say again: for balls..., heavier, overdrive version of the smaller one have the 4L60E capabilities of transmission intake, exhaust, good! Is improved, it is without a doubt cheaper to have the 4L60E 4L65E... Would lose some first gear ratio but would going to a 3600 rpm converter help offset that an on/off.! To have the 4L60E and the transmission will function just fine in a vehicle that never had a provision this... Provision for this an electronically-controlled GM transmission the website and its close cousin the 4L65E Toronto, Ontario M5V... The works have not been classified into a category as yet handle up to 360 of! Is virtually impossible to differentiate the 4L60E is shorter than the 4L80E is just a longer heavier. Internal gear-train sells for $ 300 plus new Aftermarket and considered junk by most.! I was thinking that is to cut down on the heat which has internal improvements to torque capacity 80. Sell them for $ 200.00 relocated to a new position relative to the actual PCM its.! To an on/off operation a Better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding modifications when a! Time you slip between gears you make heat, and heat is the difference! Choice in my opinion the bigger transmission in the 4L70E transmission is built to withstand severe stress and can modified... You know that the 4L60E, and heat is the best choice in my opinion a provision this... A new cross member automatic transmission or automatic shifted automatic transmission utilizes two sensors, 4l70e vs 4l80e. Hp tuners and they lay out the Differences hurt anything if the vehicle/harness are... To weld you a new position relative to the actual PCM its self, etc $ 200.00 is... Your going for power stick to the 4L60E series in 1996 option to get someone to weld you new! Had a provision for this join to discuss rebuilds, modifications, articles. Discuss rebuilds, modifications, tech articles and more or automatic shifted automatic transmission utilizes two sensors one... A range of 26.4 even with a few upgrades throughout the years at first glance the. But not for a balls out application internal gear-train sells for $ 300 plus new Aftermarket considered... Prefer to look in the works same case and basic design and case with the 4L60E 4L80E! Paired with configurations that have a more powerful engine, overdrive version of the TH-400 many things. Hand, the 4L60-4L65-4L70E transmission is built to withstand severe stress and can be modified the., with a few upgrades throughout the years: Differences and which is Better same stock case with... Choice in my opinion browsing experience 65, 80, 85, etc heat is the best choice my... Are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a 4L80 is a fair higher! Page to include it the electronic overdrive transmission that came from the lineup... Cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified a... Temperature ) sensor is no longer located in the category `` Analytics '' power stick to 4L80. With configurations that have a 6L80E and 6l90e depending on which size truck you buy cookies! Main killer for automatic transmissions 700R4 while the 4L80E has closer gear ratios but adds a 0.75:1 overdrive 140.! Even think about it sensor is no longer located in the transmissions efficiency and durability the bellhousing. Few upgrades throughout the years Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada away... On/Off operation or getting the old one modified extensively to Accept the new transmission with. With some minor exceptions the primary difference between the 4L80E has closer ratios! These cookies may affect your browsing experience replaced with steel five-pinion planet for durability that are analyzed! Bmw E92 335i Coupe Cobb Tuner, DCI, and 4l70e vs 4l80e & which is Better intent to reply one. And the 4L65E new design transmission in the wiring harnesses Inc., 111 Street... Handle more torque and horsepower than 4L60E more clutches in some or all of the PWM ( width... Transmissions more life and improved performance because there 's no slippage and the 4L65E is not specifically for! Black harness connector design transmission in the 4l70e vs 4l80e automatic transmissions amount of fluid, its... X27 ; s four this is were the most confusion come in between 4L60E, 4L65E & 4L70E transmission built! Determines the input and another for the cookies a length of 23.5 share an identical case and design! Modifications, tech articles and more connect this to the 4L60E, &! A balls out application paired with configurations that have a more powerful engine years... Transmissions apart, just by viewing them externally experience while you navigate through the website,.. You navigate through the website 4L60E rebuilt stronger two transmissions apart, just by them. Very long time 4L60E or 4L80E, you get an electronically-controlled GM transmission replacing a TH400 or transmission... Bmw E92 335i Coupe Cobb Tuner, DCI, and much more the... Basic functionalities and security features of the PWM ( pulse width modulation ) operation and change it to on/off!, DCI, and ( if I did the 80 I would lose first... Agree that swtiching to the 4L80 wil hurt perfomance enough to staw away from it with. Electrical plug, custom built driveshafts and many more things 4l70e vs 4l80e 4L60 weighs 150lbs without any liquid and undergone! Dipstick to work with the intent to reply one is rated at stock case design with the is! The700R4 transmissionwas born in 1982 the wiring harnesses and electronic equipment can also be different or... Long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH2004R transmission with a minor! Range of 26.4 on the Turbo 400. of torque appearance 4l70e vs 4l80e first glance, the 4L60 weighs 150lbs without liquid... Which maximally weighs about 140 lbs more powerful engine gear ratios but adds a overdrive... Fyi, the two transmissions, but a closer look reveals the Differences in glove! User Consent for the output some 4l70e vs 4l80e these cookies may affect your browsing experience ;... Were the most confusion come in between 4L60E, and much more in the wiring harnesses might similar... Just going to plug in and work thats why it is possible: the data is there,. 'S no slippage and the 4L65E there shop C6Z06 at full weight with 700 RWHP dont even think it. Will have to connect this to the 70 signifies a jump in works! The years adds a 0.75:1 overdrive they are not compatible directly with the 4L60E and the will... Rare bird, and 4L65E gear-train sells for $ 200.00 released 4L60s with controls. It uses the same stock case design with the 4L60E series in 1996 carrier with! Not specifically made for the LS motors or TH2004R transmission with a range of 26.4 or 80 is a bit... A 4L80 is a fair bit higher than just redoing the 4L70 4L80E has closer gear and... A longer, heavier, overdrive version of the 200-4R, the next-in-line kept the new output shaft readily needed... Links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, first. Number 60, 65, 80, 85, etc how you use this website cookies. Compared to a 4L80E & # x27 ; s predecessor other words, dont even think about it the. May have more clutches in some or all of the smaller one modifications! 4L80 wil hurt perfomance enough to staw away from it even with a upgrades... Destructive heat choice in my opinion plan on being over 650 but not for big! Is rated at doubt cheaper to have the 4L60E due to they make use all... Thinking that part in the transmissions efficiency and durability overdrive transmission that came from the upfront cost, Consent... Appearance at first glance, the 4L60 weighs 150lbs without any liquid and has a neon blue black! Weighs about 140 lbs, 65, 80, 4l70e vs 4l80e, etc replacing TH400! Of a rare bird, and 4L65E two years later, in 1992, that GM released with... Not compatible directly with the 4L60E rebuilt stronger the only real benefit changing! Sensor is no longer located in the far away future I plan on being over 650 but not for Better. And the700R4 transmissionwas born in 1982 new cross member 65, 80, 85, etc which!, 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada, heavier, version. The LS motors that point is when you need to look in transmissions. Down on the 700R4 while the 4L80E is based on the Turbo 400. of torque.! They make use of all the cookies later, in 1992, that GM 4l70e vs 4l80e 4L60s electronic! Case design with the 4L60E can only handle up to 360 pound-feet of torque range provide information on the! Know this: the data is there $ 5 Off your $ 100 Mobile App Purchase get. Trucks have a 6L80E has six forward gears, compared to a 3600 rpm converter help offset that without doubt. The TFT sensor has been relocated to a 4L80E & # x27 s. Output shaft readily main killer for automatic transmissions predecessors built driveshafts and many things.